From: Geoff Zinderdine (geoffz@mts.net)
Date: Fri Sep 27 2002 - 16:41:01 GMT-3
Please keep in mind that this list is multinational and that many other
nations don't support your nation's adventuring. If you are going to ask
people to keep it technical, leave out mention of your country's dirty
little wars.
Geoff Zinderdine
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Wilson Scot Capt AFCA/GCF
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 1:54 PM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
Here is the reason why we have network engineers w/ CCIE and network
managers with no real hands-on and troubleshooting ability. Let's face it,
we are techy geeks who care more about OSPF then about how a company earns
money. I got a war and a CCIE lab to prepare for, lets keep it real...
technical.
Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: elping [mailto:elpingu@acedsl.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:58 PM
To: certstudy
Cc: rich; albert_lu@optushome.com.au; 'Meyer, J. (Johan)'; 'Tim Ross';
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
my thoughs ..
cisco does make a profit..
all the racks and equipment is paid for ......they are tasting the gravy now
certstudy wrote:
> you guys think Cisco actually makes a profit from any of the fees it
charges
> for any of the certs. do some math. there are probably a few dozen
people
> employed by the ccie program--half of them ccie level people. then there
is
> equipment (pc's, racks, cabling). whatever cisco charges them for their
> space on cco, their rent, etc. etc.
>
> at one time i thought that they were making money off the fees but do the
> math. anyway, the real profits from the certifications are by having a
well
> trained and prepared support infrastructure.
>
> anybody try to get a question answered by linksys or d-link lately. too
> small? how about avaya, expanets or lucent??
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> To: <albert_lu@optushome.com.au>; "'Meyer, J. (Johan)'"
> <JohanMe@nedcor.com>; "'Tim Ross'" <ross2k@pclv.com>;
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:53 AM
> Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
>
> > Have you seen their lab? The one in San Jose doubles as a storage
> closet..
> > It's well organized, but NOT data center like at all..
> >
> > 10 people a day at San Jose
> > That's $12,500 a day. Not bad for one proctor and their own assets.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Albert Lu" <albert_lu@optushome.com.au>
> > To: "'Meyer, J. (Johan)'" <JohanMe@nedcor.com>; "'Tim Ross'"
> > <ross2k@pclv.com>; "'rich'" <rich@pixguru.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:14 AM
> > Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
> >
> >
> > > Actually from what I was told by a proctor, cisco doesn't really make
> that
> > > much money from CCIE lab exams. Since they have to pretty much have a
> mini
> > > 24x7 data centre for the lab with raised floors, ups, air
conditioning,
> > > power, rent, also salaries for proctors, plus not all labs are always
> > booked
> > > out. I've always thought that cisco would be making a killing with the
> lab
> > > exams, but having worked in a datacentre in my past life I could
imagine
> > how
> > > all those costs could really add up.
> > >
> > > Albert Lu
> > > CCIE #8705
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> > > Meyer, J. (Johan)
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 5:18 PM
> > > To: 'Tim Ross'; rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > Lets look at the BIG Picture!!
> > >
> > > Cisco is a Successful aggresive Bussiness so I dont think they will
> limit
> > > this certification.
> > > It brings in a span of money!
> > > That is why it was changed from a 2 day to a 1 day LAB as before when
> they
> > > could schedule
> > > max 2 labs a week they can now have 6 .Thats 3 times the revenue than
> > > before!!
> > > What succesful Bussiness man would turn that down!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Johan
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tim Ross [mailto:ross2k@pclv.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:40 AM
> > > To: rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I get the point either. In your post you said you have
> > > experience, and got in the business for the money, yet you did not
> become
> > a
> > > CCIE when you could make a lot of money by being a CCIE. Now that the
> job
> > > market is not so good for CCIE's you want to become a CCIE. Also,
> please
> > do
> > > not start limiting the number of CCIEs per country until after I pass.
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Happy studying,
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > > Could you possibly miss the point any more?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tom Larus" <tlarus@cox.net>
> > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:54 AM
> > > > Subject: MS-CCIE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > If the CCIE is not worth much these days, and you are in it
> primarily
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > money, and you already have a good job, and respect, and know so
> much
> > > more
> > > > > than those "lab rat" CCIEs, just stop pursuing the CCIE.
> > > > >
> > > > > You don't need it.
> > > > >
> > > > > You should stand pat on your experience and be comfortable in
> knowing
> > > that
> > > > > years of experience will always trump demonstrated intelligence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> > > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 9:04 PM
> > > > > Subject: MS-CCIE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > A couple of years ago, at the height of the dot com era, a CCIE
in
> > my
> > > > area
> > > > > > could easily pull in 150k. Did I start down this road for the
> > money?
> > > > > Hell
> > > > > > yes. I already had field experience, a good job, seniority,
> > respect,
> > > > and
> > > > > all
> > > > > > that stuff that makes work fun. Besides, CCIE would be a
> challenge.
> > > > But
> > > > > a
> > > > > > LOT has changed in the past couple of years. Bad economy.
Fewer
> > > jobs.
> > > > > > Lowered salaries. And apparently a butt load of CCIE's! I mean
> > wow!
> > > > And
> > > > > to
> > > > > > hear that many of them are just lab ccie's really brings the
8000+
> > > > CCIE's
> > > > > into
> > > > > > a different light. It brings my own efforts into the same
light.
> > It
> > > > > reminds
> > > > > > me of what happened to Novell certifications... I had just
gotten
> my
> > > CNE
> > > > > when
> > > > > > I heard the term 'paper CNE' about a guy at the same company who
> > > carried
> > > > > cue
> > > > > > cards around to customers with commands written on them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I haven't gotten my ccie yet but I'm hoping to. My chances
would
> > > > probably
> > > > > be
> > > > > > greatly enhanced by going to a boot-camp, but I feel that would
> just
> > > add
> > > > > to
> > > > > > the problem. Maybe limiting the number of active CCIE's in a
> > country
> > > > > would
> > > > > > keep the certification from getting too bloated. Or maybe just
> stop
> > > the
> > > > > > certification process now or at a fixed number. Or better yet,
> > allow
> > > no
> > > > > more
> > > > > > than 1000 a year (total) to be certified. Candidate selection
> > process
> > > > > could
> > > > > > be a weighted drawing (increased chances every year).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not trying to criticize anyone's efforts, but rather express
> the
> > > > > results
> > > > > > of those efforts. It's kind of liking moving into a new, quiet,
> > > > expensive
> > > > > > neighborhood. It's great until everyone else moves in, and
> suddenly
> > > > that
> > > > > > expensive house isn't worth what you paid for it.
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