From: elping (elpingu@acedsl.com)
Date: Fri Sep 20 2002 - 01:16:09 GMT-3
hey Ipsec:
this is amazing then you must be a genious or somthing .
ipsec says
"I have never touched a router in
my life, whether it's cisco, 3com or nortel. Does this make me a real paper CCIE as well? "
good luck ....
hey I will be looking forward you to contribute to this list .At leat i hope so ..
please show the rest of us you know your stuff don't just say you do...so that you can shut most people up ....
ipsec says
"The thing that matters most I think is I know my stuff, and have met all the Cisco CCIE requirements for this cert."
Elping
all i know is that I know nothing
IPSec wrote:
> El ping,
>
> No, except for a few cisco 2500's and 2600's in the lab, I have never touched a router in my life, whether it's cisco, 3com or nortel. Does this make me a real paper CCIE as well? I don't know, I myself don't consider I am, but many of you might well disagree and could hardly imagine. That's fine with me, and I totally understand it too. The thing that matters most I think is I know my stuff, and have met all the Cisco CCIE requirements for this cert. I truely believe that I am qualified to do most of networking work, if I'm offered one Cisco networking job now.
> I wouldn't mind if you'd call me "an amateur CCIE", since I really have never worked/earned a dollor for doing Cisco work, or any networking work.
> The fact that I trained myself and have literally spent no money in attaining my CCIE certification also has led me to the outcome that I gained almost nothing (financially I mean) after I have successfully passed the lab exam.
> I know what I'm weak on now is "the experiences", and will try every effort to gain some more hands-on experience in the field. Again, I need a networking job or some consulting opportunities to start with...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: elping <elpingu@acedsl.com>
> To: IPSec <ipsec@myrealbox.com>
> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:30:38 -0400
> Subject: Re: Networking professionals are welcome too!
>
> just curious:
> have you ever touched a router not counting the routers you touched at the lab ????
>
> this question I am asking is due the stament you said:
>
> "You guessed it, I'm CCIE now! (although, up till today, I still have not ever worked on any
> cisco-related jobs, or any networking jobs.)"
>
> I wont even coment on then other one you said:
>
> "I am not considering myself a paper CCIE at all, as I did think I was a paper CNE, MSCE, CCNA and CCNP."
>
> El ping
>
> IPSec wrote:
>
> > I am not sure if myself came from another career background to pursue this CCIE, I simply didn't have one....I came to this country 7 years ago trying to make a living without knowing anyone here. That was 1995, and I didn't know anything about computer, and as you can imagine, I didn't have one either. At that time, I didn't have any marketable skills, which had kept me out of job for over 2 years. In 1997, I started teaching myself the Novell networking technologies and took me another 2 years to finish up all the Novell CNE courses, and for the very first time in my life I had an IT certification and became a real paper CNE ;-). With the help of that CNE certificate, I managed to get in a small company working at the help desk doing end user PC support, which I still didn't know too much about. (it didn't talk too much about PC in the Novell CNE books.)
> > Things started to take off from that point on, where I constantly have access to and work on PC's. First, I taught myself and passsed a bunch of Microsoft exams to become an MSCE, then moved on to Cisco certification. After spending one weekend in a local Barnes and Noble store reading up a CCNA book, I passed the CCNA test and got my first Cisco cert.
> > In the following a couple of months, I self studied all 4 CCNP courses and successfully passed all 4 exams one after another to become a real paper CCNP.
> > It didn't just stop at that point, with all the hype and respect of the most prestigous certification, CCIE I heard about, I embarked on the very long and very very tough journey toward this end goal, that was a big decission, but again, I am on my own. I could never afford time or money going to any Cisco training classes or those expensive commercial bootcamps. Being on my own pursuing the CCIE is a really tough thing to do, believe me on that, coz I know and I did it. What makes things worse are, I got long hours to work during the day, and it's non-cisco related, not even networking related. In the evening, I forced myself to pull together again and fired up all the energy left over from the hard working day, reading up thousands of pages of CCO documentations, stack after stack of Cisco Press books, going through thousands of emails in this list (over 100,000 emails since I joined), countless hours of lab practice on the rack, numerous long days and late nights, regar!
dl!
> es!
> > s weekdays, weekends or holidays.
> > What has all this hard working treated me with?
> > You guessed it, I'm CCIE now! (although, up till today, I still have not ever worked on any cisco-related jobs, or any networking jobs.)
> > I am not considering myself a paper CCIE at all, as I did think I was a paper CNE, MSCE, CCNA and CCNP.
> > To become a CCIE is a big deal, do think again if you just decided to, but you can do it just like I did it!
> >
> > My highest respect to my fellow CCIE's!
> >
> > "Joseph Rinehart" <jjrinehart@hotmail.com>
> > Sent by: nobody@groupstudy.com
> > 09/18/2002 12:01 PM
> > Please respond to "Joseph Rinehart"
> >
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > cc:
> > Subject: Re: Networking professionals are welcome too!
> >
> > I am curious as to what other professions and background we have among the
> > members of this list. If this list mirros reality I would suspect there are
> > folks working in this industry and the CCIE that didn't start out in
> > networking at all. That's why the lawyers among us are encouraging to me.
> >
> > I started out in the industry at a small ISP as a sales rep knowing nothing
> > about the technology (more on that in a minute), but I decided I didn't want
> > to be one of those sales reps that looked like a deer caught in the
> > headlights when asked a question. So I studied, funny because it started
> > out with the "Internet Plumbing Handbook" by Novell press---man that nearly
> > overloaded my brain, it assumed a lot of knowledge. I must have read it
> > four times when it started making sense. After that it was pretty much just
> > drilling deeper on the technologies my company was offering. When I started
> > my CCNA it started to come together a lot more, and of course that is now
> > history. I moved from that ISP to AT&T as a sales rep about that time and
> > then moved into a sales engineer position. You would be surprised how much
> > hands on with routers you can get even in presales positions like that.,
> > even to this day. I am lucky that my old company let me set up a lab with
> > their old equipment and calls on me from time to time to troubleshoot their
> > stuff. There's nothing like a live production environment to really test
> > what you know or don't know. And Dedcember will mark my fourth year in the
> > industry.
> >
> > Oh yeah, about my former career, I was a full time minister and church
> > planter, with a master's degree. maybe all that Hebrew and Greek studying
> > prepared me for language syntax and stuff.
> >
> > And you thought it was weird for lawyers to be doing this, hmmmm?
> >
> > What other backgrounds do we have here?
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Abraham, Ajith" <Ajith.Abraham@FLHOSP.ORG>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:27 AM
> > Subject: Networking professionals are welcome too!
> >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > Lawyers have not stopped becoming lawyers, Engineering schools have not
> > > closed their doors forever, nor have McDonald stopped their franchising
> > > program because there are so many of all of them. It is all about being
> > the
> > > best at what you do. CCIE, or SkyCap, be the best.
> > >
> > > "We all , in one way or the other, belong to the grand old Idiot's club.
> > > Some have guest passes, some have annual membership, some are life time
> > > members and yet others who are lobbying for unlimited terms in the office.
> > > What are you up to today?" Ajith Abraham ,El Presidente, Idiot's Club
> > >
> > > AVRAN
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gibbs, John [mailto:John.Gibbs@cwcom.cwplc.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 3:47 AM
> > > To: 'Paglia, John (USPC.PCT.Hopewell)'; 'certstudy'; rich;
> > > ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: Re: MS-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi guys
> > >
> > > I have to agree with John and Chuck, etc here - Rich is attacking the very
> > > certification he hopes to achieve, but I also understand what Rich is
> > trying
> > > to say in that he feels that the CCIE may become devalued with the influx
> > of
> > > so many new CCIEs. What I say to you all is that we all have our own
> > > reasons for going for the ultimate certification, and who are we to
> > question
> > > the motives of other people? This is a very emotive subject, but there are
> > a
> > > few obvious reasons for the drop in CCIE salary rates;
> > >
> > > 1) As was mentioned in a previous reply, the current market climate
> > > dictates that as the marketplace has more CCIEs than ever before, salaries
> > > will drop, perhaps temporarily, to compensate for that.
> > > 2) More and more people are now trying to achieve CCIE certification, and
> > > it appears that more are succeeding.
> > >
> > > I have my lab booked for early next year, and I can honestly say that I am
> > > not bothered about how many CCIEs there are in the world, 8,000 or so
> > fully
> > > qualified CCIEs is not a huge number considering the worlds population.
> > It
> > > used to be said that people went for the CCIE certification to command a
> > > better salary, in this current market, this is obviously not the case, as
> > we
> > > have seen CCIE salaries drop dramatically. I would say that this shows
> > that
> > > the people who are now going through the CCIE are the ones who are doing
> > it
> > > for the right reasons - they love what they do, are willing to make
> > > sacrifices, and will be proud to have that number by their name.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > John Gibbs CCNP CNE ACA
> > > Senior Network Consultant
> > > Engineering Services
> > > Service Delivery
> > > Internet Services
> > >
> > > Cable & Wireless
> > > Delivering the Internet promise
> > > www.cw.com <http://www.cw.com>
> > >
> > > email: john.gibbs@cw.com
> > > Tel: 44 (0)1793 362334
> > > Fax: 44 (0)1793 362062
> > > Mob: 44 (0)7786 854837
> > > Post ISC Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon, Wiltshire,
> > SN5
> > > 6LA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Paglia, John (USPC.PCT.Hopewell) [mailto:JPaglia@NA2.US.ML.com]
> > > Sent: 18 September 2002 03:37
> > > To: 'certstudy'; rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: Re: MS-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > Ya gotta wonder about the thought processes of someone who joins onto a
> > CCIE
> > > Study list, then trivializes the very thing the list was created for to
> > it's
> > > hardworking and insightful members. And to top it all, this same person
> > > admits that HE HIMSELF desires the attainment of this cert.
> > >
> > > Hey, if it's as overpopulated, trivialized and non-lucrative as you think,
> > > why not direct your typing energy elsewhere??? Don't hang around for our
> > > benefit!!!
> > >
> > > Pags
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: certstudy [SMTP:certstudy@snet.net]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:01 PM
> > > > To: rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: OT: Re: MS-CCIE
> > > >
> > > > As you did Rich, I am sharing my thoughts here. The comments are not
> > > > meant
> > > > towards you personally but they are meant to
> > > > try and shine a light on the fact that way too many people are after
> > this
> > > > gig for the $$ and not for the Joy of Internetworking.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A couple of years ago, at the height of the dot com era, a CCIE in my
> > > > area
> > > > > could easily pull in 150k. Did I start down this road for the money?
> > > > Hell
> > > > > yes. I already had field experience, a good job, seniority, respect,
> > > > and
> > > > all
> > > > > that stuff that makes work fun. Besides, CCIE would be a challenge.
> > > > But
> > > > a
> > > > > LOT has changed in the past couple of years. Bad economy. Fewer
> > jobs.
> > > > > Lowered salaries. And apparently a butt load of CCIE's! I mean wow!
> > > > And
> > > > to
> > > > > hear that many of them are just lab ccie's really brings the 8000+
> > > > CCIE's
> > > > into
> > > > > a different light. It brings my own efforts into the same light. It
> > > > reminds
> > > > > me of what happened to Novell certifications... I had just gotten my
> > CNE
> > > > when
> > > > > I heard the term 'paper CNE' about a guy at the same company who
> > carried
> > > > cue
> > > > > cards around to customers with commands written on them.
> > > >
> > > > Interesting--so you dont think that the growth in the Internet and the
> > > > fact
> > > > that companies' reliance on
> > > > their own networks and the growth of networking in general has had
> > > > anything
> > > > to do with the increase
> > > > in the number of CCIE's. There are currently over 150000 networks in a
> > > > full
> > > > Internet routing table. can you imagine
> > > > how many devices and networks are behind these?
> > > >
> > > > I will acknowledge the fact that pay rates have come down to realistic
> > > > ranges again. this is due more to the economy than to the number of
> > > > CCIE's
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't gotten my ccie yet but I'm hoping to. My chances would
> > > > probably
> > > > be
> > > > > greatly enhanced by going to a boot-camp, but I feel that would just
> > add
> > > > to
> > > > > the problem.
> > > >
> > > > How is going to a boot camp adding to the problem? The boot camps that
> > > > are
> > > > at the top of the list include
> > > > instructors which Cisco itself calls on to 'Alpha" test new versions of
> > > > the
> > > > tests. There is probably not one of us here who can say
> > > > that he or she uses ALL of the tested technologies daily. what is the
> > > > difference between locking yourself in a room for months or going to a
> > > > week
> > > > long
> > > > intensive session where you can practice in a structured environment.
> > For
> > > > me a good bootcamp means maximizing my study time and working on speed
> > and
> > > > time management which i personally have trouble doing alone in my home
> > > > lab.
> > > >
> > > > >Maybe limiting the number of active CCIE's in a country would
> > > > > keep the certification from getting too bloated. Or maybe just stop
> > the
> > > > > certification process now or at a fixed number. Or better yet, allow
> > no
> > > > more
> > > > > than 1000 a year (total) to be certified. Candidate selection process
> > > > could
> > > > > be a weighted drawing (increased chances every year).
> > > >
> > > > This makes huge sense. I can hear it now from the Cisco reps...."I am
> > > > sorry
> > > > mr customer, we just cant sell any more routers this year.
> > > > All of the qualified individuals that we have for support are too busy
> > and
> > > > we cant certify any more this year. We wouldnt want to water
> > > > down the value of the certification.....Hello....Hello....hmmm mr
> > customer
> > > > must have hung up. I wonder why??"
> > > >
> > > > CCIE and all of the certifications are Cisco certs and it is in Cisco's
> > > > best
> > > > interest to have a well trained and certified support
> > > > infrastructure so they can sell more product.
> > > >
> > > > I think if we move to Guadalupe, Puerto Rico, Belarus, Lithuania,
> > Latvia,
> > > > Yugoslavia, Zimbabwe, Morocco, Bahrain, Jordan, Quatar, Kazakhstan, Sri
> > > > Lanka or Vietnam you can be the second CCIE in any of those areas and
> > > > probably demand a very, very high salary.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not trying to criticize anyone's efforts, but rather express the
> > > > results
> > > > > of those efforts. It's kind of liking moving into a new, quiet,
> > > > expensive
> > > > > neighborhood. It's great until everyone else moves in, and suddenly
> > > > that
> > > > > expensive house isn't worth what you paid for it.
> > > >
> > > > If all we are doing this for is to get into the fancy neighborhood, we
> > are
> > > > doing it for the wrong reasons.
> > >
> > >
> > > **********************************************************************
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