From: Joseph Rinehart (jjrinehart@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Sep 18 2002 - 16:01:37 GMT-3
I am curious as to what other professions and background we have among the
members of this list. If this list mirros reality I would suspect there are
folks working in this industry and the CCIE that didn't start out in
networking at all. That's why the lawyers among us are encouraging to me.
I started out in the industry at a small ISP as a sales rep knowing nothing
about the technology (more on that in a minute), but I decided I didn't want
to be one of those sales reps that looked like a deer caught in the
headlights when asked a question. So I studied, funny because it started
out with the "Internet Plumbing Handbook" by Novell press---man that nearly
overloaded my brain, it assumed a lot of knowledge. I must have read it
four times when it started making sense. After that it was pretty much just
drilling deeper on the technologies my company was offering. When I started
my CCNA it started to come together a lot more, and of course that is now
history. I moved from that ISP to AT&T as a sales rep about that time and
then moved into a sales engineer position. You would be surprised how much
hands on with routers you can get even in presales positions like that.,
even to this day. I am lucky that my old company let me set up a lab with
their old equipment and calls on me from time to time to troubleshoot their
stuff. There's nothing like a live production environment to really test
what you know or don't know. And Dedcember will mark my fourth year in the
industry.
Oh yeah, about my former career, I was a full time minister and church
planter, with a master's degree. maybe all that Hebrew and Greek studying
prepared me for language syntax and stuff.
And you thought it was weird for lawyers to be doing this, hmmmm?
What other backgrounds do we have here?
:)
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abraham, Ajith" <Ajith.Abraham@FLHOSP.ORG>
To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:27 AM
Subject: Networking professionals are welcome too!
> Folks,
>
> Lawyers have not stopped becoming lawyers, Engineering schools have not
> closed their doors forever, nor have McDonald stopped their franchising
> program because there are so many of all of them. It is all about being
the
> best at what you do. CCIE, or SkyCap, be the best.
>
> "We all , in one way or the other, belong to the grand old Idiot's club.
> Some have guest passes, some have annual membership, some are life time
> members and yet others who are lobbying for unlimited terms in the office.
> What are you up to today?" Ajith Abraham ,El Presidente, Idiot's Club
>
> AVRAN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gibbs, John [mailto:John.Gibbs@cwcom.cwplc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 3:47 AM
> To: 'Paglia, John (USPC.PCT.Hopewell)'; 'certstudy'; rich;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Re: MS-CCIE
>
>
> Hi guys
>
> I have to agree with John and Chuck, etc here - Rich is attacking the very
> certification he hopes to achieve, but I also understand what Rich is
trying
> to say in that he feels that the CCIE may become devalued with the influx
of
> so many new CCIEs. What I say to you all is that we all have our own
> reasons for going for the ultimate certification, and who are we to
question
> the motives of other people? This is a very emotive subject, but there are
a
> few obvious reasons for the drop in CCIE salary rates;
>
> 1) As was mentioned in a previous reply, the current market climate
> dictates that as the marketplace has more CCIEs than ever before, salaries
> will drop, perhaps temporarily, to compensate for that.
> 2) More and more people are now trying to achieve CCIE certification, and
> it appears that more are succeeding.
>
> I have my lab booked for early next year, and I can honestly say that I am
> not bothered about how many CCIEs there are in the world, 8,000 or so
fully
> qualified CCIEs is not a huge number considering the worlds population.
It
> used to be said that people went for the CCIE certification to command a
> better salary, in this current market, this is obviously not the case, as
we
> have seen CCIE salaries drop dramatically. I would say that this shows
that
> the people who are now going through the CCIE are the ones who are doing
it
> for the right reasons - they love what they do, are willing to make
> sacrifices, and will be proud to have that number by their name.
>
> Regards
> John Gibbs CCNP CNE ACA
> Senior Network Consultant
> Engineering Services
> Service Delivery
> Internet Services
>
> Cable & Wireless
> Delivering the Internet promise
> www.cw.com <http://www.cw.com>
>
> email: john.gibbs@cw.com
> Tel: 44 (0)1793 362334
> Fax: 44 (0)1793 362062
> Mob: 44 (0)7786 854837
> Post ISC Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon, Wiltshire,
SN5
> 6LA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paglia, John (USPC.PCT.Hopewell) [mailto:JPaglia@NA2.US.ML.com]
> Sent: 18 September 2002 03:37
> To: 'certstudy'; rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Re: MS-CCIE
>
>
> Ya gotta wonder about the thought processes of someone who joins onto a
CCIE
> Study list, then trivializes the very thing the list was created for to
it's
> hardworking and insightful members. And to top it all, this same person
> admits that HE HIMSELF desires the attainment of this cert.
>
> Hey, if it's as overpopulated, trivialized and non-lucrative as you think,
> why not direct your typing energy elsewhere??? Don't hang around for our
> benefit!!!
>
> Pags
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: certstudy [SMTP:certstudy@snet.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:01 PM
> > To: rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: OT: Re: MS-CCIE
> >
> > As you did Rich, I am sharing my thoughts here. The comments are not
> > meant
> > towards you personally but they are meant to
> > try and shine a light on the fact that way too many people are after
this
> > gig for the $$ and not for the Joy of Internetworking.
> >
> >
> > > A couple of years ago, at the height of the dot com era, a CCIE in my
> > area
> > > could easily pull in 150k. Did I start down this road for the money?
> > Hell
> > > yes. I already had field experience, a good job, seniority, respect,
> > and
> > all
> > > that stuff that makes work fun. Besides, CCIE would be a challenge.
> > But
> > a
> > > LOT has changed in the past couple of years. Bad economy. Fewer
jobs.
> > > Lowered salaries. And apparently a butt load of CCIE's! I mean wow!
> > And
> > to
> > > hear that many of them are just lab ccie's really brings the 8000+
> > CCIE's
> > into
> > > a different light. It brings my own efforts into the same light. It
> > reminds
> > > me of what happened to Novell certifications... I had just gotten my
CNE
> > when
> > > I heard the term 'paper CNE' about a guy at the same company who
carried
> > cue
> > > cards around to customers with commands written on them.
> >
> > Interesting--so you dont think that the growth in the Internet and the
> > fact
> > that companies' reliance on
> > their own networks and the growth of networking in general has had
> > anything
> > to do with the increase
> > in the number of CCIE's. There are currently over 150000 networks in a
> > full
> > Internet routing table. can you imagine
> > how many devices and networks are behind these?
> >
> > I will acknowledge the fact that pay rates have come down to realistic
> > ranges again. this is due more to the economy than to the number of
> > CCIE's
> >
> > >
> > > I haven't gotten my ccie yet but I'm hoping to. My chances would
> > probably
> > be
> > > greatly enhanced by going to a boot-camp, but I feel that would just
add
> > to
> > > the problem.
> >
> > How is going to a boot camp adding to the problem? The boot camps that
> > are
> > at the top of the list include
> > instructors which Cisco itself calls on to 'Alpha" test new versions of
> > the
> > tests. There is probably not one of us here who can say
> > that he or she uses ALL of the tested technologies daily. what is the
> > difference between locking yourself in a room for months or going to a
> > week
> > long
> > intensive session where you can practice in a structured environment.
For
> > me a good bootcamp means maximizing my study time and working on speed
and
> > time management which i personally have trouble doing alone in my home
> > lab.
> >
> > >Maybe limiting the number of active CCIE's in a country would
> > > keep the certification from getting too bloated. Or maybe just stop
the
> > > certification process now or at a fixed number. Or better yet, allow
no
> > more
> > > than 1000 a year (total) to be certified. Candidate selection process
> > could
> > > be a weighted drawing (increased chances every year).
> >
> > This makes huge sense. I can hear it now from the Cisco reps...."I am
> > sorry
> > mr customer, we just cant sell any more routers this year.
> > All of the qualified individuals that we have for support are too busy
and
> > we cant certify any more this year. We wouldnt want to water
> > down the value of the certification.....Hello....Hello....hmmm mr
customer
> > must have hung up. I wonder why??"
> >
> > CCIE and all of the certifications are Cisco certs and it is in Cisco's
> > best
> > interest to have a well trained and certified support
> > infrastructure so they can sell more product.
> >
> > I think if we move to Guadalupe, Puerto Rico, Belarus, Lithuania,
Latvia,
> > Yugoslavia, Zimbabwe, Morocco, Bahrain, Jordan, Quatar, Kazakhstan, Sri
> > Lanka or Vietnam you can be the second CCIE in any of those areas and
> > probably demand a very, very high salary.
> > >
> > > I'm not trying to criticize anyone's efforts, but rather express the
> > results
> > > of those efforts. It's kind of liking moving into a new, quiet,
> > expensive
> > > neighborhood. It's great until everyone else moves in, and suddenly
> > that
> > > expensive house isn't worth what you paid for it.
> >
> > If all we are doing this for is to get into the fancy neighborhood, we
are
> > doing it for the wrong reasons.
>
>
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