From: Michael Snyder (msnyder@xxxxxxx)
Date: Wed Jul 24 2002 - 23:18:22 GMT-3
Simple, the joke is that if you could run off all the candidates, then
the author of this email below will have a better chance at making the
kind of money that he's telling everyone else they won't make.
You have to give him credit for creative thinking. If you can't
increase the demand, then try to decrease the supply.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
bob.dixon@attbi.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:34 PM
To: bgrafals
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: WAKE UP CALL! You "only have a CCIE" and you want more than
50-60k - Better Read... Re: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
Someone with time on their hands, please let me in on
the joke.
-Bob
> Don't you mean "Miracle Metal" :-)
>
> On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:04:13 -0700, "Joseph Ezerski"
> <jezerski@broadcom.com> wrote :
>
> > All they all said Reardon Metal would never work.....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf
Of
> > Darby Weaver
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:57 AM
> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: WAKE UP CALL! You "only have a CCIE" and you want more than
> > 50-60k - Better Read... Re: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> >
> >
> > Well said...
> >
> > The fact of the matter is with many larger corporate ISPs going down
or
> > taking large hits and the sheer number of consolidations, it is
merely a
> > numbers game...
> >
> > Another fact is the sheer number of career-certified and Cisco
Academy
> > Graduates.
> >
> > The Cisco Academy had over 297,000 students enrolled a few months
ago and
> > more by now.
> >
> > Now when I was in high school and $3.25 was the minimum wage, things
> weren't
> > quite so obvious.
> >
> > But with that many potential job hires - a simple fact comes to
mind: You
> > do not need a CCIE to get your 1600/1700/2500/2600 connected to the
> > Internet. Period.
> >
> > Now of there are 7-8,000+ Active CCIE's; 297,000 Cisco Academy
Graduates,
> X
> > thousand CCNA's, and X thousand CCNP's, then you will quickly
understand
> > that the demand has diminished.
> >
> > A lot of the old Microsoft, Novell, Unix Admins are moving over in
herds.
> > Yep, faster than you can wink your eyes.
> >
> > Remember, the education facilities told them they could make
70,000.00+
> and
> > 500,000 - 1,000,000 moved over in just a couple of years or so it
seems.
> Oh
> > yes, and they had to pass 3-7 exams or so...
> >
> > Now they are being told they can earn a 6-digit salary if they can
spell
> > Cisco. And it seems they think it can be done with a few months
study
> and a
> > passing one test and one puny lab.
> >
> > Well - Wake up call - They can pass this test much like any other.
May
> take
> > them 7-10 tries or more, but guess what some spent 10k+ to earn half
of
> the
> > salary of a CCIE. So you better believe they are coming. In herds.
> >
> > Some of them will stay, but even if only 10% stay you are sill going
to
> have
> > 50,000-100,000+ new Cisco Certified Professionals.
> >
> > Good for Cisco, they sell product. Bad for Consultant or Partner -
We
> sell
> > time, and that value will be diminished with the sheer onslaught of
new
> > people who are "qualified" to work with Cisco Products. I mean they
did
> > just complete a 5-10 Day Bootcamp and have taken the Lab several
times.
> >
> > By our own admission, they are now "qualified" to work with the
product.
> > After all the same lab they paid for is the same one we've been
training
> > for, and some of for years.
> >
> > Now you may argue, that these wannabees may not be as qualified as
you
> are.
> > I mean you have years and years of experience.
> >
> > Yep. But you are a CCIE.
> >
> > Yep. So are they.
> >
> > And guess what to a simple employer, you are one and the same. Some
may
> > know the difference and may be willing to pay, but you better
believe it
> > will be at a lower rate than in the boom years.
> >
> > You want to differentiate yourself from the imposter. The fact is
you may
> > well be that imposter.
> >
> > Remember, this is a study group with 10,000+ members. Guess what -
You
> are
> > that guy. How can you fault him/her for having the same gleam in
his/her
> > eye that you once had.
> >
> > Even more shocking, the beauty of Cisco is that we can do just about
> > everything remotely. So our counterparts in any country can now
assume
> our
> > roles in our country. They no longer even need an H1-B.
> >
> > And you better believe they can do it cheaper.
> >
> > Now evaluate your credentials and remember that your competition is
as
> well
> > versed in English as you, has an american sales counterpart, and
even
> holds
> > a Masters Degree or PH.D in Telecommunications or Electrical
Engineering
> as
> > well as one or more CCIE designations.
> >
> > Oh yes, and he/she even has the years of expereince in I.T. or
> > Telecommunications.
> >
> >
> > This is what you are going to be faced with. You will still be able
to
> get
> > a job, but it will be at substantially reduced rates. Welcome to
the
> global
> > economy.
> >
> > It is a bright new world with many smiling faces.
> >
> > Did I forget to mention that one such country has almost twice the
> > population of the U.S or better and some of them (a large number)
> currently
> > hold the above qualifications?
> >
> > Better wake up and stake your claim early, sleepy head.
> >
> > The days of 125k+ just to install access routers is over. The
competition
> > is coming from your local high schools, colleges, tech education
centers,
> > and even abroad.
> >
> > It is happening as we speak. Some Call Centers are global in
physical
> > location.
> >
> > Cisco's very own IP Telephony is making this possible.
> >
> > So my advice is to continue your formal education, get your certs,
and
> build
> > rock-solid credentials - You may not get the chance to do so in the
next
> 3-5
> > years or so.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "yakout esmat" <yesmat@iprimus.com.au>
> > To: "eric" <namaste@pacbell.net>
> > Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 5:22 AM
> > Subject: RE: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> >
> >
> > > Eric
> > >
> > > It is a tough question. And I am sure the responses will vary from
one
> to
> > > another.
> > >
> > > There are few things to consider;
> > >
> > > 1) Supply and demand, obviously the demand on IT professionals
(CCIE or
> > not)
> > > is diminishing so quickly as the world market kneels and curls
into a
> > fetal
> > > position (hope it doesn't go back to the womb)
> > >
> > > 2) The real question is, will the market ever pick up? and when? I
think
> > it
> > > will pick up, but not as it was before, not even close.
When.....well
> this
> > > is the million dollar question, because if it is going to take few
years
> > to
> > > "START" picking up, then every one needs to rethink and revisits
their
> > > strategies (different people have different strategies)
> > >
> > > 3) When the market picks up, employers will start employing people
with
> > > experience first and certification second, and these will be
toooooo
> many.
> > > So if you want to arm yourself with CCIE, gain experience here and
there
> > and
> > > hold your breath, joing the club..I can see you already are a
member of
> > Club
> > > Groupstudy :-))
> > >
> > > My personal opinion, don't follow any body's foot steps, just
follow
> your
> > > dreams regardless.
> > > If you like IT and like the challenge of CCIE, by all means go for
it.
> It
> > > has to pay at the end and will never go to waste ever.
> > >
> > > Yakout
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: eric [mailto:namaste@pacbell.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:27 AM
> > > To: yakout esmat
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > Please excuse my off the subject questions.
> > > Just wanted to get some input from group members. Will the CCIE
Cert.
> get
> > > you or
> > > me a job in todays market or better yet next years market looking
at
> > giving
> > > myself 6 months (unemployment Benefits ) to get my number.
> > > I am thinking of going to one of the many schools after my
upcoming
> > layoff;
> > > are
> > > they worth the investment or should I try to do it on my own with
the
> help
> > > of
> > > this list and the labs that are out there ?
> > > I am trying to get a sense of how bad is it out there and will
things
> turn
> > > around. I love this field and if it matters I live in the Bay Area
and
> > would
> > > rather not leave after getting my number but will do what it takes
to
> stay
> > > in the
> > > field.
> > > Thanks for any input or advice.
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