From: Brett Rilling (BRilling@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Wed Jul 24 2002 - 17:10:45 GMT-3
In India and China.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Rogers [mailto:Eric.Rogers@RexGlobal.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:39 PM
To: bgrafals; Joseph Ezerski; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: WAKE UP CALL! You "only have a CCIE" and you want more than
50-60k - Better Read... Re: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
Ah yes, but where are the John Galt's of the world now? :-o
----- Original Message -----
From: "bgrafals" <bgrafals@knology.net>
To: "Joseph Ezerski" <jezerski@broadcom.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: WAKE UP CALL! You "only have a CCIE" and you want more than
50-60k - Better Read... Re: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> Don't you mean "Miracle Metal" :-)
>
> On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:04:13 -0700, "Joseph Ezerski"
> <jezerski@broadcom.com> wrote :
>
> > All they all said Reardon Metal would never work.....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> > Darby Weaver
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:57 AM
> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: WAKE UP CALL! You "only have a CCIE" and you want more than
> > 50-60k - Better Read... Re: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> >
> >
> > Well said...
> >
> > The fact of the matter is with many larger corporate ISPs going down or
> > taking large hits and the sheer number of consolidations, it is merely a
> > numbers game...
> >
> > Another fact is the sheer number of career-certified and Cisco Academy
> > Graduates.
> >
> > The Cisco Academy had over 297,000 students enrolled a few months ago
and
> > more by now.
> >
> > Now when I was in high school and $3.25 was the minimum wage, things
> weren't
> > quite so obvious.
> >
> > But with that many potential job hires - a simple fact comes to mind:
You
> > do not need a CCIE to get your 1600/1700/2500/2600 connected to the
> > Internet. Period.
> >
> > Now of there are 7-8,000+ Active CCIE's; 297,000 Cisco Academy
Graduates,
> X
> > thousand CCNA's, and X thousand CCNP's, then you will quickly understand
> > that the demand has diminished.
> >
> > A lot of the old Microsoft, Novell, Unix Admins are moving over in
herds.
> > Yep, faster than you can wink your eyes.
> >
> > Remember, the education facilities told them they could make 70,000.00+
> and
> > 500,000 - 1,000,000 moved over in just a couple of years or so it seems.
> Oh
> > yes, and they had to pass 3-7 exams or so...
> >
> > Now they are being told they can earn a 6-digit salary if they can spell
> > Cisco. And it seems they think it can be done with a few months study
> and a
> > passing one test and one puny lab.
> >
> > Well - Wake up call - They can pass this test much like any other. May
> take
> > them 7-10 tries or more, but guess what some spent 10k+ to earn half of
> the
> > salary of a CCIE. So you better believe they are coming. In herds.
> >
> > Some of them will stay, but even if only 10% stay you are sill going to
> have
> > 50,000-100,000+ new Cisco Certified Professionals.
> >
> > Good for Cisco, they sell product. Bad for Consultant or Partner - We
> sell
> > time, and that value will be diminished with the sheer onslaught of new
> > people who are "qualified" to work with Cisco Products. I mean they did
> > just complete a 5-10 Day Bootcamp and have taken the Lab several times.
> >
> > By our own admission, they are now "qualified" to work with the product.
> > After all the same lab they paid for is the same one we've been training
> > for, and some of for years.
> >
> > Now you may argue, that these wannabees may not be as qualified as you
> are.
> > I mean you have years and years of experience.
> >
> > Yep. But you are a CCIE.
> >
> > Yep. So are they.
> >
> > And guess what to a simple employer, you are one and the same. Some may
> > know the difference and may be willing to pay, but you better believe it
> > will be at a lower rate than in the boom years.
> >
> > You want to differentiate yourself from the imposter. The fact is you
may
> > well be that imposter.
> >
> > Remember, this is a study group with 10,000+ members. Guess what - You
> are
> > that guy. How can you fault him/her for having the same gleam in
his/her
> > eye that you once had.
> >
> > Even more shocking, the beauty of Cisco is that we can do just about
> > everything remotely. So our counterparts in any country can now assume
> our
> > roles in our country. They no longer even need an H1-B.
> >
> > And you better believe they can do it cheaper.
> >
> > Now evaluate your credentials and remember that your competition is as
> well
> > versed in English as you, has an american sales counterpart, and even
> holds
> > a Masters Degree or PH.D in Telecommunications or Electrical Engineering
> as
> > well as one or more CCIE designations.
> >
> > Oh yes, and he/she even has the years of expereince in I.T. or
> > Telecommunications.
> >
> >
> > This is what you are going to be faced with. You will still be able to
> get
> > a job, but it will be at substantially reduced rates. Welcome to the
> global
> > economy.
> >
> > It is a bright new world with many smiling faces.
> >
> > Did I forget to mention that one such country has almost twice the
> > population of the U.S or better and some of them (a large number)
> currently
> > hold the above qualifications?
> >
> > Better wake up and stake your claim early, sleepy head.
> >
> > The days of 125k+ just to install access routers is over. The
competition
> > is coming from your local high schools, colleges, tech education
centers,
> > and even abroad.
> >
> > It is happening as we speak. Some Call Centers are global in physical
> > location.
> >
> > Cisco's very own IP Telephony is making this possible.
> >
> > So my advice is to continue your formal education, get your certs, and
> build
> > rock-solid credentials - You may not get the chance to do so in the next
> 3-5
> > years or so.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "yakout esmat" <yesmat@iprimus.com.au>
> > To: "eric" <namaste@pacbell.net>
> > Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 5:22 AM
> > Subject: RE: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> >
> >
> > > Eric
> > >
> > > It is a tough question. And I am sure the responses will vary from one
> to
> > > another.
> > >
> > > There are few things to consider;
> > >
> > > 1) Supply and demand, obviously the demand on IT professionals (CCIE
or
> > not)
> > > is diminishing so quickly as the world market kneels and curls into a
> > fetal
> > > position (hope it doesn't go back to the womb)
> > >
> > > 2) The real question is, will the market ever pick up? and when? I
think
> > it
> > > will pick up, but not as it was before, not even close. When.....well
> this
> > > is the million dollar question, because if it is going to take few
years
> > to
> > > "START" picking up, then every one needs to rethink and revisits their
> > > strategies (different people have different strategies)
> > >
> > > 3) When the market picks up, employers will start employing people
with
> > > experience first and certification second, and these will be toooooo
> many.
> > > So if you want to arm yourself with CCIE, gain experience here and
there
> > and
> > > hold your breath, joing the club..I can see you already are a member
of
> > Club
> > > Groupstudy :-))
> > >
> > > My personal opinion, don't follow any body's foot steps, just follow
> your
> > > dreams regardless.
> > > If you like IT and like the challenge of CCIE, by all means go for it.
> It
> > > has to pay at the end and will never go to waste ever.
> > >
> > > Yakout
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: eric [mailto:namaste@pacbell.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:27 AM
> > > To: yakout esmat
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > Please excuse my off the subject questions.
> > > Just wanted to get some input from group members. Will the CCIE Cert.
> get
> > > you or
> > > me a job in todays market or better yet next years market looking at
> > giving
> > > myself 6 months (unemployment Benefits ) to get my number.
> > > I am thinking of going to one of the many schools after my upcoming
> > layoff;
> > > are
> > > they worth the investment or should I try to do it on my own with the
> help
> > > of
> > > this list and the labs that are out there ?
> > > I am trying to get a sense of how bad is it out there and will things
> turn
> > > around. I love this field and if it matters I live in the Bay Area and
> > would
> > > rather not leave after getting my number but will do what it takes to
> stay
> > > in the
> > > field.
> > > Thanks for any input or advice.
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