From: bgrafals (bgrafals@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Wed Jul 24 2002 - 15:06:07 GMT-3
Don't you mean "Miracle Metal" :-)
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:04:13 -0700, "Joseph Ezerski"
<jezerski@broadcom.com> wrote :
> All they all said Reardon Metal would never work.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Darby Weaver
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:57 AM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: WAKE UP CALL! You "only have a CCIE" and you want more than
> 50-60k - Better Read... Re: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
>
>
> Well said...
>
> The fact of the matter is with many larger corporate ISPs going down or
> taking large hits and the sheer number of consolidations, it is merely a
> numbers game...
>
> Another fact is the sheer number of career-certified and Cisco Academy
> Graduates.
>
> The Cisco Academy had over 297,000 students enrolled a few months ago and
> more by now.
>
> Now when I was in high school and $3.25 was the minimum wage, things
weren't
> quite so obvious.
>
> But with that many potential job hires - a simple fact comes to mind: You
> do not need a CCIE to get your 1600/1700/2500/2600 connected to the
> Internet. Period.
>
> Now of there are 7-8,000+ Active CCIE's; 297,000 Cisco Academy Graduates,
X
> thousand CCNA's, and X thousand CCNP's, then you will quickly understand
> that the demand has diminished.
>
> A lot of the old Microsoft, Novell, Unix Admins are moving over in herds.
> Yep, faster than you can wink your eyes.
>
> Remember, the education facilities told them they could make 70,000.00+
and
> 500,000 - 1,000,000 moved over in just a couple of years or so it seems.
Oh
> yes, and they had to pass 3-7 exams or so...
>
> Now they are being told they can earn a 6-digit salary if they can spell
> Cisco. And it seems they think it can be done with a few months study
and a
> passing one test and one puny lab.
>
> Well - Wake up call - They can pass this test much like any other. May
take
> them 7-10 tries or more, but guess what some spent 10k+ to earn half of
the
> salary of a CCIE. So you better believe they are coming. In herds.
>
> Some of them will stay, but even if only 10% stay you are sill going to
have
> 50,000-100,000+ new Cisco Certified Professionals.
>
> Good for Cisco, they sell product. Bad for Consultant or Partner - We
sell
> time, and that value will be diminished with the sheer onslaught of new
> people who are "qualified" to work with Cisco Products. I mean they did
> just complete a 5-10 Day Bootcamp and have taken the Lab several times.
>
> By our own admission, they are now "qualified" to work with the product.
> After all the same lab they paid for is the same one we've been training
> for, and some of for years.
>
> Now you may argue, that these wannabees may not be as qualified as you
are.
> I mean you have years and years of experience.
>
> Yep. But you are a CCIE.
>
> Yep. So are they.
>
> And guess what to a simple employer, you are one and the same. Some may
> know the difference and may be willing to pay, but you better believe it
> will be at a lower rate than in the boom years.
>
> You want to differentiate yourself from the imposter. The fact is you may
> well be that imposter.
>
> Remember, this is a study group with 10,000+ members. Guess what - You
are
> that guy. How can you fault him/her for having the same gleam in his/her
> eye that you once had.
>
> Even more shocking, the beauty of Cisco is that we can do just about
> everything remotely. So our counterparts in any country can now assume
our
> roles in our country. They no longer even need an H1-B.
>
> And you better believe they can do it cheaper.
>
> Now evaluate your credentials and remember that your competition is as
well
> versed in English as you, has an american sales counterpart, and even
holds
> a Masters Degree or PH.D in Telecommunications or Electrical Engineering
as
> well as one or more CCIE designations.
>
> Oh yes, and he/she even has the years of expereince in I.T. or
> Telecommunications.
>
>
> This is what you are going to be faced with. You will still be able to
get
> a job, but it will be at substantially reduced rates. Welcome to the
global
> economy.
>
> It is a bright new world with many smiling faces.
>
> Did I forget to mention that one such country has almost twice the
> population of the U.S or better and some of them (a large number)
currently
> hold the above qualifications?
>
> Better wake up and stake your claim early, sleepy head.
>
> The days of 125k+ just to install access routers is over. The competition
> is coming from your local high schools, colleges, tech education centers,
> and even abroad.
>
> It is happening as we speak. Some Call Centers are global in physical
> location.
>
> Cisco's very own IP Telephony is making this possible.
>
> So my advice is to continue your formal education, get your certs, and
build
> rock-solid credentials - You may not get the chance to do so in the next
3-5
> years or so.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "yakout esmat" <yesmat@iprimus.com.au>
> To: "eric" <namaste@pacbell.net>
> Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 5:22 AM
> Subject: RE: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
>
>
> > Eric
> >
> > It is a tough question. And I am sure the responses will vary from one
to
> > another.
> >
> > There are few things to consider;
> >
> > 1) Supply and demand, obviously the demand on IT professionals (CCIE or
> not)
> > is diminishing so quickly as the world market kneels and curls into a
> fetal
> > position (hope it doesn't go back to the womb)
> >
> > 2) The real question is, will the market ever pick up? and when? I think
> it
> > will pick up, but not as it was before, not even close. When.....well
this
> > is the million dollar question, because if it is going to take few years
> to
> > "START" picking up, then every one needs to rethink and revisits their
> > strategies (different people have different strategies)
> >
> > 3) When the market picks up, employers will start employing people with
> > experience first and certification second, and these will be toooooo
many.
> > So if you want to arm yourself with CCIE, gain experience here and there
> and
> > hold your breath, joing the club..I can see you already are a member of
> Club
> > Groupstudy :-))
> >
> > My personal opinion, don't follow any body's foot steps, just follow
your
> > dreams regardless.
> > If you like IT and like the challenge of CCIE, by all means go for it.
It
> > has to pay at the end and will never go to waste ever.
> >
> > Yakout
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: eric [mailto:namaste@pacbell.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:27 AM
> > To: yakout esmat
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: OT. Any guarantee that the CCIE
> >
> >
> > Please excuse my off the subject questions.
> > Just wanted to get some input from group members. Will the CCIE Cert.
get
> > you or
> > me a job in todays market or better yet next years market looking at
> giving
> > myself 6 months (unemployment Benefits ) to get my number.
> > I am thinking of going to one of the many schools after my upcoming
> layoff;
> > are
> > they worth the investment or should I try to do it on my own with the
help
> > of
> > this list and the labs that are out there ?
> > I am trying to get a sense of how bad is it out there and will things
turn
> > around. I love this field and if it matters I live in the Bay Area and
> would
> > rather not leave after getting my number but will do what it takes to
stay
> > in the
> > field.
> > Thanks for any input or advice.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Sep 07 2002 - 19:36:42 GMT-3