From: Jake (jakeczyz@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Sat Jun 01 2002 - 16:38:12 GMT-3
GOD BLESS Cisco!!! - for making the CCIE difficult enough that people who
want only
to pass it - and could care less how much they actually know - are painfully st
ifled!
I agree with Hansang.
Call me old fashioned, but in my book the end almost never justifies the m
eans. Some
people, however, in their tenacious unscrupulousness, take the approach that as
long as
they get it done, that's all that matters. When people fail the CCIE, like most
things in
life, they often take the attitude of "It's not a fair exam [law, tax, requirem
ent,
obligation, etc., etc.]!" or "They test obscurities to make you fail." I've see
n and
heard this a thousand times. When **I** fail at something, I look at what **I**
did
wrong, or consider that possibly, just possibly, I'm not as knowledgeable as th
e people
that have succeeded. Then, I hit the books. If someone truly did spend 1000 hou
rs on a
*good* rack, and read all the recommended books on Cisco's web site (or at leas
t the 15
most important ones), and still can't pass after multiple attempts... maybe it'
s just not
meant to be. In my experience talking and dealing with numerous CCIE's and cand
idates,
I've found that most of the time people fail this exam because they have not re
ad the
required books. This isn't a college class where you can get an "A" with just C
liff's
Notes and paying attention in class... you truly have to pound the books!! I on
ly spent
200 hours on the LAB prep, but I did read 6000+ pages; even managed to pass on
the first
attempt, go figure.
I think 99% of the CCIE's on this group will agree that the CCIE IS fair.
Its lack
of relevance lies only in the fact that it tests the most difficult aspects of
routing
and switching and not the piece of cake "day to day" crap you run into supporti
ng a
production environment (which, incidentally, former secretaries are doing at my
[Fortune
500, 16,000 user, 180 Cat6500] company. Any 2 year old can ping, do a 'show por
t,' and
pick up the phone and call TAC as soon as there's the slightest problem, if thi
s is what
people want to do why bother with getting the CCIE?
As for people like Scott, thanks for helping Cisco make money. Also, pleas
e let us
know the name of your school when you open it.
Guys, - I'm sorry for sounding angry, and this response isn't aimed person
ally at
Scott, just at the attitude he described. I think this is probably the single g
reatest
danger to the future of the CCIE program - that people who don't want to learn
what it
takes are doing everything else they can to try to get the cert. Keep it diffic
ult.
IMNSHO,
Jake
9102
--- Hansang Bae <hbae@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> At 12:22 AM 5/29/2002 -0700, scott mann wrote:
> >I have been quiet for a couple of months after failing my lab a couple of ti
mes. I
> decided to take the time off to concentrate on work (got a promotion), rest m
y mind for
> a few weeks, and just go over the syntax a couple of hours before the lab.
> >So the lab is in a few hours and I am have not studied 1 hour since my last
attempt.
> Am I crazy....maybe, but for me the time it takes to learn every possible unh
eard-of
> command is simply not worth it. It's cheaper to pay $1250 to learn from the a
ttempt
> than to spend another 200 hours searching for every little loophole/trick sce
nario.
> >I've already spent 1 year and 1000+ serious hours of lab work. I know the co
re about
> as well as anyone can, so it's a matter of getting the right test. If I get a
tough one
> and I don't make it, I'll probably be pissed for a day or so, but then I'll m
ove on and
> reschedule in 30-60 days.
> >Truth is, if I take the test several times more to pass, I will be all the b
etter for
> it as I teach Cisco networking part-time, and each attempt just gives me that
much more
> insight to my CCIE Bootcamp Training which I plan to open towards end of year
.
>
>
> I don't usually partake in these threads but I have to take exception. You'r
e going
> about this all wrong. You may indeed pass because you lucked out with an eas
ier test.
> But knowing how to do a particular lab is VASTLY different than UNDERSTANDING
what
> you're doing.
>
> You will *NOT* be all the better unless you're saying that if you see more la
bs, you
> can pass on that scenerio to your students. It almost sounds as if you're
> deliberately trying to do this.
>
>
> >I have found in my attempts that even though I nailed a requirement, includi
ng getting
> the protocor to OK my solution, I would still loose the points when the score
comes
> back?!?
>
>
> **NO** proctor would OK a scenrio. They would fired if they did. Perhaps it
's because
> you don't FULLY comprehend what it is they are asking that you're not getting
the full
> points.
> Not being pajoritive here, but stating a possible reason as to why you're not
getting
> the points. For example, "make sure this device can get out through the rout
ers" can
> be met with a default route on the PC to the router's interface. But it was
*really*
> asking for you to implement vrrp/hsrp.
>
>
> > So, armed with that knowledge, I know it's a matter of knowing the material
AND being
> graded by a proctor who likes your particular solution (which may work perfec
t, be
> allowed by the requirement, but rub the protocor the wrong way).
>
>
> Not in my experience. I've only taken it twice but both times, they were VER
Y FAIR w/o
> giving away the answer.
>
>
> >In any case, I failed my previous attempts because I deserved to. I missed s
ome simply
> boneheaded things which I will remember and improve upon each successive atte
mpt.
> >In many ways, the CCIE certification is as much about money as anything. If
you have
> $20,000-$40,000, then you can afford the equipment and the finest training to
SPEED
> your way to your goal. I personally would rather take my time, build myself a
nice home
> lab and attempt the lab many times rather than spend $4000 for 5 days of brai
n-crushing
> Bootcamp, but that's personal choice.
>
>
> Yet you're going to open up a bootcamp? A bit ironic that you don't believe
in
> something you're about to embark on, don't you think?
>
>
> >Failing SUCKS, but I learn more from the experience than any practice lab I
have ever
> tried...it's actually fun after you've been there a couple of times. I think
I'll ask a
> LOT of questions this time to get my money's worth.
>
>
> We used to have a saying in the Infantry. Practice DOESN'T make perfect. Pe
rfect
> practice makes perfect. Again, it comes down to knowing what you're doing as
opposed
> to doing the lab from rote memory.
>
> >Anyways, wish me luck and I'll pass on my experience when I finish..
>
>
> Good luck on your attempt. I wasn't at all trying to be demeaning or pajor
itive.
> But I've seen enough "engineers" who bang away at the keyboard until somethin
g
> magically works. They don't know why or how they got it to work, but that it
works -
> until it fails and they have to start all over. Truse me when I say that we
have
> people like that at work and it's DEPRESSING and ANNOYING to work with such
> "co-(non)workers" Not knowing how to do XYZ is completely OK so long as you
're
> willing to learn. Afterall, non of us are that smart. But *thinking* you kn
ow
> everything is another thing entirely!
>
> hsb
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue Jul 02 2002 - 08:12:19 GMT-3