From: Brian Dennis (brian@xxxxxx)
Date: Thu Jan 10 2002 - 14:39:15 GMT-3
Curtis,
You can't compare apples and oranges and say that because someone is a great
apple it automatically makes them a great orange. The smartest networking
engineer that I ever worked with couldn't get 20 points in the CCIE lab.
Does that make me better than him? Not by a long shot. Does it make him
better than me? No. His expertise is in a different area than working hands
on with Cisco routers. Do I think that the CCIE certification is comparable
to some of the accomplishments of someone like Radia Perlman? Hell no. It's
trying to compare apples and oranges. Actually the CCIE isn't even close to
being in the same league.
Think of it like a company that builds cars. You've got the design engineers
and the people like me that work on the factory floor building the cars that
the design engineers designed. Do you think that just because someone can
design a car that they could actually build it and keep it running? Maybe
from a lemans point of view yes but in reality no. Sure we may not be as
smart or have accomplished as much as the design engineers but we do deserve
respect in our own right and no one should look down upon us.
Howard could run circles around me when it comes to designing large scale
networks but it doesn't mean he could run circles around me when it comes to
working hands on with Cisco routers. We're in two different leagues.
Do I think that Howard could contribute to this group? Sure he could. The
issue is that someone should just be honest and forthright and not use an
excuse like Cisco lawyers will come after him if they can't pass the lab.
This is what got under my skin and many others. If as he said he's not
getting the CCIE certificatione because of NDA issues, he shouldn't be
developing Cisco certification material. Should people support someone who
is possiblely violating the NDA?
Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) CCSI #98640
5G Networks, Inc.
brian@5g.net
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Curtis Call
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:11 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: [Re: OT: Honorary CCIE's]
> Not on this list, but people I can think of who are not CCIEs,
> include Tony Li, Yakov Rekhter, Dave Katz, JJ Garcia-Luna-Alceves,
> Randy Bush, Andrew Partan, Radia Perlman, Paul Ferguson, Vint Cerf,
> Scott Bradner, Frank Kastenholz, Karl Auerbach, Sue Hares, Sean
> Doran, and many others. Do you know who they are? Do they know who
> you are? Are you saying they don't know how to network?
Allow me to throw in my two cents to the list. To put the CCIE on a
pedestal
and claim that those that hold it are the 'masters' of the networking domain
seems quite foolish to me. As Howard mentioned here, most of the best
people
in networking do not bother wasting their time getting certifications, their
experience in the field and accomplishments in the standards area is what
guarantees their respectibility. In case you don't recognize those names
listed, much of these are the people that create the standards, oversee the
IETF working groups etc. In addition, these are the programmers that
implement the protocols, does anyone here that holds their CCIE actually
believe they know more about OSPF than these people do? How about IS-IS or
BGP? Then why are some of you claiming that holding a CCIE is some sort of
requirement to teach about these protocols, even from a Cisco-oriented
stance?
Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot here, from lurking on this list I can
attest that Howard's answers are some of the best and most informative.
Don't
turn away one of your best resources. And don't allow four letters and a
number make your head too big.
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