From: Scott Morris (swm@xxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Jan 03 2002 - 12:22:06 GMT-3
I apologize for misconstruing the point on it then...
However, the title isn't a lab book. It's called "CCIE Practical Studies,
Volume I", which doesn't imply anything by the name (that's why I thought we
were discussing something different). And it's published by Cisco Press,
which is a part of Pearson Publishing, not of Cisco. They are
contractually tied to Cisco, but that's it.
So again, I apologize for misconstruing the subject, but knowing the title,
I didn't grab on to that thread. :)
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: McCallum, Robert [mailto:Robert.McCallum@let-it-be-thus.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:01 AM
To: 'swm@emanon.com'; McCallum, Robert; 'warren perrett';
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Press Lab Book
Scott,
The initial point of this thread was that Cisco are producing a
"""""""LAB"""""" Book. The arguments were that if this was actually the
""""""""""CCIE LAB""""""" book then it would break the NDA. The other point
that you have exhaustively pointed out is that all the info required for the
lab is
already on CCO which leads me to say "Why buy the book then????" or indeed
any other book which promises riches after reading it.
I for one do NOT want any book out there to start handing out actual labs,
as this will totally undermine all the work I have put in to get to this
stage.
The main point is that the book is from Cisco and is titled CCIE lab book.
This is the problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
Sent: 03 January 2002 14:49
To: 'McCallum, Robert'; 'warren perrett'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Press Lab Book
No, actually the point is that if you want the solution of the lab handed to
you, then YES, it's breaking NDA. And NO, you don't belong on this list
anyway.
Everything in the lab can be solved off of CCO. No problems. The book
isn't pointing out anything new, but it's chopping down the quantity of
information to most useful bits of information. If you aren't capable of
digesting that information and LEARNING it enough to solve the lab, in my
opinion, that's your own problem, not the books.
So if you are in the market for a book that breaks NDA and gives you the
answer, then I'm sure you'll do a great service to the rest of the people
who have worked for theirs. If it breaks NDA, you can be assured that it's
not done by a CCIE. So let's look at other books... Does Caslow's book
break the NDA? I would think not. He's pretty heavy on making sure people
don't. But that doesn't mean the book doesn't have value. Because
hopefully it TEACHES you something.
You either learn it or you don't. And no, there is nothing on the lab that
is not on CCO. You may not readily FIND it on CCO, but it's out there. (Or
you may not understand what you have found, but it's still there)
So don't down the book just because it doesn't hand you something. And just
get off the NDA idea. This is not designed to be the Transcender version of
the CCIE lab.
And yes, I've been through the lab a couple times. ;)
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: McCallum, Robert [mailto:Robert.McCallum@let-it-be-thus.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 9:34 AM
To: 'Scott Morris'; 'warren perrett'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Press Lab Book
No Scott the point is that IF this book doesn't break the NDA then it is a
complete pile of stinking dung. I am not sure if you have sat the lab or
not but I would say that there are some parts of the lab which are NOT on
the website already, and are down to experience. I totally agree with Mr
Perrett in that this is another case of Cisco taking control over a market
strived in the quest for knowledge.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
Sent: 03 January 2002 14:19
To: 'warren perrett'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Press Lab Book
I'm sure it's like the copyright law on artwork... Three major points of
difference and it's not a copy.
Everything on the CCIE lab exam is ON CCO already. It's just a matter of
putting it in one place. The book doesn't come out and tell you, hey...
Learn this part, but forget about this because it's not on the exam.
Just like everyone on here being a little anal about the NDA... I'm sure if
the book put scenarios/questions that were DEAD ON something on a lab, they
were probably edited and changed. And as far as I'm aware, the
questionnaire that you answer at the beginning of your lab has not been
modified to include, "Did you use the Cisco Press CCIE lab book?"...
So relax. Assume that since it's published by a group so closely tied to
Cisco that it passed the nod of approval and get on with life.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
warren perrett
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 8:26 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Press Lab Book
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................
let me get my head around this........ breaking the NDA is a crime
punishible by death in Cisco's world
So what do they do ? Publish a book aimed at CCIE wanabees
It is reasonable to assume then that only 3 things can then be true
1. the book has no value at all as a study guide as it will be within the
NDA and as such not even be able to discuss IP routing protocols. For
example saying protocol X is in the book you could infere that this is on
the Lab and so therefore a break of the CCIE NDA ( don't shout at me
saying your being picky I didn't write the NDA ).
2. Its a paper print of the web site as is the Cisco Desgin and case
stuides book is and is a total waste of money as you can download it for
free.
3. It breaks the NDA .
It has, it claims 5 labs , these by the very nature must be close to or
similar to the real lab. In the UK we have a law called the trades
description act , that means if I buy a box of oranges and when i get
them home I find they are apples I can get my money back as the contents
of the box where not what they where advertised to be...........
I assume in the land of the Laywers AKA the USA this must also be true
So it would lead me to belive the book MUST have some material that
breaks the NDA.
I don't want Cisco to break the NDA , the reason I want this number is so
I can be seen as having achived something NOT so people know I can read a
study guide book and pass an exam like thousands have with the CCDP &
CCNP programs.
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