From: Christopher Larson (clarson@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Feb 15 2001 - 17:41:19 GMT-3
Let me apologize to Rene as it of course looks like my post was an angry
response at his mail directly and it wasn't meant to be. I just wanted to
voice what I had been thinking over a long time of seeing other similiar
responses to posts (although usually not here in CCIELAB).
All my mail is coming into one mailbox and I thought (and didn't autoreply)
this post was from the other groupstudy where you find many many topics
that could fall under the topic of certification (this included in my
opinion).
So having said that (and I am sorry to waste everyones time but I do have a
point specific to the topic of the thread here in a minute) Rene was right
the topic of this list is labstudy. Although off-topic I think it is a VERY
important point and needs discussion and consideration by us and Cisco.
Whew!!
Ok. I want to say I don't think the Doctor, Lawyer thing flies here. If it
suddenly became easy (and I doubt the lab is THAT easy, but I can't really
say I can only look at the numbers) to become a Doctor or a Lawyer, and the
tests and tasks to accomplish these professions were looked at as easy then
I think it would be very much a topic of discussion especially among these 2
professions. Not to mention the clients and patients. There would be a lot
of complaining. And it would be very hard to say who was going to make you
healthy and who was going to transplant a kidney when all you came in for
was a stomache ache.
The Doctors and lawyers would have it easy though because the people would
also complain and back them up and move to change things. We are not so
fortunate and should watch how the exam is looked at and treated. We don't
have the luxury of backup. Access to more CCIE's on the one hand is very
good for the companies we work for, good for cisco, and bad for CCIE's. It
drives down salaries, increases company discount which allows a company to
purchase more from Cisco. On the other hand if the CCIE is too easy and does
not reflect "real" serious expertise then it will be hard for organizations
to distinguish good experts who have the cert and people who just have the
cert. Hopefully there will be some balance. Actually hopefully it will lean
toward not having a market exploding with CCIE's devalueing the reason
everone get's it in the first place.
I was asked if there were 10,000 or more CCIE's would I still pursue it and
what difference would it make. I am already very good at what I do so why
pursue it now? The CCIE to most people means you are the top of your field.
You are top-notch, A-1 and know what you are talking about. It is the Ph.D
of certificates. It is of course not true for every individual (like
doctors), but it is viewed that way in general. If it were not why have it?
That is why it is worth so much money and means so much.
I do not want to waste my time studying to pass a lab that gives you very
little time overall to figure out those little things that you would rarely
run into in the real world, and if you did you'd have the time and resources
to get the job done. Why? I am already good at the real world stuff and make
good money doing it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Pomerhn
To: Brian Stewart; 'Jason T. Rohm'; 'CCIELIST (E-mail)'
Sent: 2/15/01 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: Number of new CCIE's (off topic)
> I know CCNPs
> who can't configure a 2 interface router. They read books
> and managed to
> pass the exams.
Okay. WORLD of difference between a book test and a lab practical. Don't
contrast apples to oranges.
> I took the lab exam several times over the course of 2 years.
> I can assure
> you the test hasn't gotten easier. The lab I passed was
> nearly identical to
Okay. I can "assure" you that it HAS gotten easier. Again, don't try to
dispute this with me. ;)
If you'd care for one of many examples of proof, you passed on an exam
that, by your own admission, was similar to a previous one you took.
That implies it was easier for you to pass.
> For another example look at the ISP dial and Wan Switching
> labs. There are
Stop it with these apples to oranges comparisons. Let's see:
ISP Dial - Cable, DSL, TACACS, wierd other stuff like PIX
WAN Switching - Stratacom ATM switches
These are completely different certs, difficult by virtue of their
equipment lists. Any Joe Shmoe can buy a 2600 to study for R/S - let's
see the same guy buy a BPX, IGX, or AS5300.
There's plenty of information on the configuration of this gear, but the
availability ain't there.
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