From: David Ankers (d.ankers@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Tue Jan 02 2001 - 13:56:25 GMT-3
Totally agree, if anything make the written for the CCIE harder. CCNP - and I
don't want to upset anyone on the list, I have one as well - is a memory
test. There is no way it should qualify for the CCIE lab. I guess the CCIE
written falls in to the same catagory though? For me the written was a case
of either, "Eh? that's not a CCIE level question is it?" or "What? Is that
English?".
I really think the CCIE written should be harder, some of the question I had
were fairly similar to CCNP level. It would also be a lot fairer to make the
written harder so as nobody has false ideas about the lab :-)
$0.02
Dave.
On Tuesday 02 January 2001 15:30, you wrote:
> Not in a million years.
>
> I know tooo many CCNP's who don't have the hands on experience to handle
> half of the CCIE topics.
> How do you get to pass the CCIE? Practice, Practice, Practice.
>
> George Lampron
> Manager
> KPMG Consulting Inc.
> Rocky Mountain Broadband Solutions Center.
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Rogers [mailto:drogers@icscorp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 7:43 AM
> To: 'tv'; Jonathan Hays
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
>
>
> How about only allowing CCNPs to take the CCIE Lab Exam? Eliminate the
> CCIE written exam. Require a CCNP instead. Would this reduce the backlog?
> Would this increase the number passing the lab exam?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tv [mailto:tvarriale@telocity.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 1:28 PM
> To: Jonathan Hays
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
>
> >I have been told by several Cisco SEs (and I assume they were just
>
> repeating the party
>
> > line) that Cisco needs CCIEs (and other certified Cisco professionals) to
>
> design and
>
> > service Cisco equipment pure and simple.
>
> Yes, they do. But, from my experience, they need those people to service
> the accounts they don't want to. Cisco wants the 4 BPX CLEC
> account....they don't want the 10 router frame network.......that's where
> the partners come in.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Hays" <jhays@acropolis.com>
> Cc: <cisco@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
>
> > Chuck, I think your numbers are way off. Even if we forget the overhead
>
> for lab
>
> > equipment, electricity, etc. I believe that the staff and hours to
> > support
>
> the CCIE exam
>
> > is substantial (there's more than just a lab proctor or two behind the
>
> scenes - what
>
> > about people who do training, write exams, etc.). Cisco SEs spend many
>
> hours each week
>
> > presenting free CCIE prep seminars to Cisco resellers. And so on.
> >
> > On a cost accounting basis, I wouldn't be surprised if Cisco is actually
>
> losing money. I
>
> > have been told by several Cisco SEs (and I assume they were just
> > repeating
>
> the party
>
> > line) that Cisco needs CCIEs (and other certified Cisco professionals) to
>
> design and
>
> > service Cisco equipment pure and simple. They don't have near enough
>
> employees to handle
>
> > the huge demand. One even told me that Cisco would love to have thousands
>
> and thousands
>
> > of CCIEs out there but it simply is not possible to lower the standards.
> >
> > -Jonathan
> >
> > Chuck Larrieu wrote:
> > > >> I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they
>
> were
>
> > > going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)<<
> > >
> > > some cruel and unusual thoughts come to mind.
> > >
> > > 1) Set some arbitrary standard such that people who fail day one by
> > > more than so many points have a 90 day wait for retest, rather than 30
> > > days.
>
> Or
>
> > > you have to at least made it into day 2 to be able to retest within 30
>
> days.
>
> > > Some such thing
> > >
> > > 2) Limit the number of times one may attempt the lab in any 12 month
>
> period.
>
> > > 3) Increase the price charged for each lab attempt. E.g. 1K for first
> > > attempt, 2K for 2nd, 5K for third
> > >
> > > I say this half jokingly, but half seriously. I talk to a lot of people
>
> who
>
> > > take the lab, both those who have passed and those who have not.
> > > The old rule of economics holds true - people act according to their
> > > perceived best interest. If someone else is footing the bill, and there
>
> is
>
> > > no disincentive for failure, then people will act accordingly. They
> > > will book themselves and make attempts even when they know they have no
> > > hope
>
> of
>
> > > passing. They will schedule attempt after attempt because there is no
>
> reason
>
> > > not to, especially if someone else pays, and especially if there is no
> > > penalty for failure.
> > >
> > > To be frank, I don't see any incentive for Cisco to do anything to
>
> change
>
> > > things on the demand side. They might add more racks, or more lab
>
> locations.
>
> > > But do the numbers some time. Cisco is booking something like 25 - 30
>
> people
>
> > > a week in San Jose alone. That's 25-30 K per week in revenue, or at
>
> least
>
> > > 1.3 million a year. So they pay a couple of lab proctors 150K each. The
>
> rest
>
> > > is pure profit. ( yes, I know from an accounting standpoint there are
> > > several other cost factors ) So the incentive from Cisco's standpoint
> > > is
>
> do
>
> > > figure out ways to add revenue, rather than limit testing attempts.
> > >
> > > I look for Cisco to announce a bit more capacity, either in terms of
>
> adding
>
> > > another location or adding more racks at existing locations. Or both.
>
> There
>
> > > is a ton of money to be made in the certification game, and as the
>
> entity
>
> > > that controls the rules and the market, Cisco certainly enjoys the
>
> lion's
>
> > > share of that revenue.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>
> Of
>
> > > CiscoCCStuff@aol.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 9:04 AM
> > > To: cisco@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
> > >
> > > I am a little behind on my mail, so please forgive me if this has been
> > > answered.
> > >
> > > I called to schedule my lab on Dec 21. The next date available was
> > > June 11-12 at RTP. SIX MONTH BACKLOG...WOW!!!
> > >
> > > I did not ask about other test centers, but would imagine similar
>
> bookings.
>
> > > I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they
> > > were going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)
> > >
> > > Jon Burns
> > > CCNP, CCDP, Lab Candidate
> > > Now, I just need to get a job! ;-)
> > >
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