From: Mike S. Lee (mikele@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Tue Jan 02 2001 - 12:22:30 GMT-3
I agree, the CCNP is a good stepping stone, but does not completely prepare
you for the lab. I know a lot of people who are ready for the lab, could
probably take the written with their eyes closed and be ready for the lab.
These guys are much more prepared than most of the CCNP's I know. After I
got my CCNP i thought that I was ready, but after taking the lab I really
had my eyes opened.
anyway, my two cents worth is that the best way to resolve the problem is
not to change the prerequisites, but add more racks.
Mike Lee
CCNP+LATM+Security+Voice Access/CCDP
NNCSE/NNCDE
Cisco Systems, Inc.
12515 Research Blvd., Bldg. 04
Austin, TX 78759-2200
DSL Customer Support Engineering
mikele@cisco.com
(512)378-1331 ofc
Text Page: mikele@epage.cisco.com
At 08:58 AM 1/2/2001 -0600, Price, Jamie wrote:
>I think thats a bit unfair. I dont believe it is currently a requirement.
>
>I have a CCNP desig myself, although at the time of obtaining it I didnt
>intend going for the CCIE. Had I intended going for the CCIE way back when
>then I dont think I would have bothered with the CCNP exams. They took a
>lot of time and money that could have been directed elsewhere. And to be
>honest - I think CCNP is no indication of a candidates "readiness" at all.
>The CCNP exams are "parrot fashion" exams like a CNE or MCSE. Flame me if
>you like, I'm not putting the cert down (I wouldnt have got it myself if it
>had been worthless), but answering questions like "what is the keyboard
>shortcut to enter the system menu on a 1900" correctly does not make one
>candidate more likely for success than another.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Don Rogers [mailto:drogers@icscorp.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:43 AM
>To: 'tv'; Jonathan Hays
>Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: RE: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
>
>
>How about only allowing CCNPs to take the CCIE Lab Exam? Eliminate the CCIE
>written exam. Require a CCNP instead. Would this reduce the backlog?
>Would this increase the number passing the lab exam?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tv [mailto:tvarriale@telocity.com]
>Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 1:28 PM
>To: Jonathan Hays
>Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
>
>
> >I have been told by several Cisco SEs (and I assume they were just
>repeating the party
> > line) that Cisco needs CCIEs (and other certified Cisco professionals) to
>design and
> > service Cisco equipment pure and simple.
>
>Yes, they do. But, from my experience, they need those people to service
>the accounts they don't want to. Cisco wants the 4 BPX CLEC account....they
>don't want the 10 router frame network.......that's where the partners come
>in.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jonathan Hays" <jhays@acropolis.com>
>Cc: <cisco@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:04 PM
>Subject: Re: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
>
>
> > Chuck, I think your numbers are way off. Even if we forget the overhead
>for lab
> > equipment, electricity, etc. I believe that the staff and hours to support
>the CCIE exam
> > is substantial (there's more than just a lab proctor or two behind the
>scenes - what
> > about people who do training, write exams, etc.). Cisco SEs spend many
>hours each week
> > presenting free CCIE prep seminars to Cisco resellers. And so on.
> >
> > On a cost accounting basis, I wouldn't be surprised if Cisco is actually
>losing money. I
> > have been told by several Cisco SEs (and I assume they were just repeating
>the party
> > line) that Cisco needs CCIEs (and other certified Cisco professionals) to
>design and
> > service Cisco equipment pure and simple. They don't have near enough
>employees to handle
> > the huge demand. One even told me that Cisco would love to have thousands
>and thousands
> > of CCIEs out there but it simply is not possible to lower the standards.
> >
> > -Jonathan
> >
> > Chuck Larrieu wrote:
> >
> > > >> I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they
>were
> > > going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)<<
> > >
> > > some cruel and unusual thoughts come to mind.
> > >
> > > 1) Set some arbitrary standard such that people who fail day one by more
> > > than so many points have a 90 day wait for retest, rather than 30 days.
>Or
> > > you have to at least made it into day 2 to be able to retest within 30
>days.
> > > Some such thing
> > >
> > > 2) Limit the number of times one may attempt the lab in any 12 month
>period.
> > >
> > > 3) Increase the price charged for each lab attempt. E.g. 1K for first
> > > attempt, 2K for 2nd, 5K for third
> > >
> > > I say this half jokingly, but half seriously. I talk to a lot of people
>who
> > > take the lab, both those who have passed and those who have not.
> > > The old rule of economics holds true - people act according to their
> > > perceived best interest. If someone else is footing the bill, and there
>is
> > > no disincentive for failure, then people will act accordingly. They will
> > > book themselves and make attempts even when they know they have no hope
>of
> > > passing. They will schedule attempt after attempt because there is no
>reason
> > > not to, especially if someone else pays, and especially if there is no
> > > penalty for failure.
> > >
> > > To be frank, I don't see any incentive for Cisco to do anything to
>change
> > > things on the demand side. They might add more racks, or more lab
>locations.
> > > But do the numbers some time. Cisco is booking something like 25 - 30
>people
> > > a week in San Jose alone. That's 25-30 K per week in revenue, or at
>least
> > > 1.3 million a year. So they pay a couple of lab proctors 150K each. The
>rest
> > > is pure profit. ( yes, I know from an accounting standpoint there are
> > > several other cost factors ) So the incentive from Cisco's standpoint is
>do
> > > figure out ways to add revenue, rather than limit testing attempts.
> > >
> > > I look for Cisco to announce a bit more capacity, either in terms of
>adding
> > > another location or adding more racks at existing locations. Or both.
>There
> > > is a ton of money to be made in the certification game, and as the
>entity
> > > that controls the rules and the market, Cisco certainly enjoys the
>lion's
> > > share of that revenue.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>Of
> > > CiscoCCStuff@aol.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 9:04 AM
> > > To: cisco@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
> > >
> > > I am a little behind on my mail, so please forgive me if this has been
> > > answered.
> > >
> > > I called to schedule my lab on Dec 21. The next date available was June
> > > 11-12 at RTP. SIX MONTH BACKLOG...WOW!!!
> > >
> > > I did not ask about other test centers, but would imagine similar
>bookings.
> > > I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they were
> > > going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)
> > >
> > > Jon Burns
> > > CCNP, CCDP, Lab Candidate
> > > Now, I just need to get a job! ;-)
> > >
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