From: Scott Morris (smorris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Tue Jan 02 2001 - 12:14:57 GMT-3
I certainly agree with you Jamie... The CCNP is a "career PATH" towards
CCIE, not a prerequisite, nor a real indication of readiness... if you were
to REQUIRE that people take each and every one of the Cisco instructor-lead
courses, then you may be on a closer track, but even then, there's a lot of
difference.
If you want to reduce the backlog, put something in place like verification
of employment with REAL networks for "x" number of years, or something like
that... Though I assume that would meet with the same reaction as requiring
a CCNP. :)
View the backlog as a good thing, or a bad thing...
1. it means more people are interested in the certification, so one day,
you may not be 6 months behind! (grin)
2. it means that more people have more money than they do common sense and
are taking the exam anyway...
*shrug* I don't think the backlog is all the big of a deal, it's one of
those things in life! Maybe it's all part of Cisco's psychology strategy!
Ya know. The time pressure and complexity is one thing, measuring how a
candidate deals with pressure. Perhaps the backlog in signing up for the
test is merely a way of exerting psychological pressure on the patience of
candidates! All in all, I don't believe any CCIE's are responsible for
"going postal" (apologies to any postal workers in the group!).. So......
Perhaps this delay is a good thing!
All in all, relax, breathe deeply, and don't sweat it!
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Price, Jamie
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:59 AM
To: 'Don Rogers'; 'tv'; Jonathan Hays
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
I think thats a bit unfair. I dont believe it is currently a requirement.
I have a CCNP desig myself, although at the time of obtaining it I didnt
intend going for the CCIE. Had I intended going for the CCIE way back when
then I dont think I would have bothered with the CCNP exams. They took a
lot of time and money that could have been directed elsewhere. And to be
honest - I think CCNP is no indication of a candidates "readiness" at all.
The CCNP exams are "parrot fashion" exams like a CNE or MCSE. Flame me if
you like, I'm not putting the cert down (I wouldnt have got it myself if it
had been worthless), but answering questions like "what is the keyboard
shortcut to enter the system menu on a 1900" correctly does not make one
candidate more likely for success than another.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Rogers [mailto:drogers@icscorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:43 AM
To: 'tv'; Jonathan Hays
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
How about only allowing CCNPs to take the CCIE Lab Exam? Eliminate the CCIE
written exam. Require a CCNP instead. Would this reduce the backlog?
Would this increase the number passing the lab exam?
-----Original Message-----
From: tv [mailto:tvarriale@telocity.com]
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 1:28 PM
To: Jonathan Hays
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
>I have been told by several Cisco SEs (and I assume they were just
repeating the party
> line) that Cisco needs CCIEs (and other certified Cisco professionals) to
design and
> service Cisco equipment pure and simple.
Yes, they do. But, from my experience, they need those people to service
the accounts they don't want to. Cisco wants the 4 BPX CLEC account....they
don't want the 10 router frame network.......that's where the partners come
in.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Hays" <jhays@acropolis.com>
Cc: <cisco@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
> Chuck, I think your numbers are way off. Even if we forget the overhead
for lab
> equipment, electricity, etc. I believe that the staff and hours to support
the CCIE exam
> is substantial (there's more than just a lab proctor or two behind the
scenes - what
> about people who do training, write exams, etc.). Cisco SEs spend many
hours each week
> presenting free CCIE prep seminars to Cisco resellers. And so on.
>
> On a cost accounting basis, I wouldn't be surprised if Cisco is actually
losing money. I
> have been told by several Cisco SEs (and I assume they were just repeating
the party
> line) that Cisco needs CCIEs (and other certified Cisco professionals) to
design and
> service Cisco equipment pure and simple. They don't have near enough
employees to handle
> the huge demand. One even told me that Cisco would love to have thousands
and thousands
> of CCIEs out there but it simply is not possible to lower the standards.
>
> -Jonathan
>
> Chuck Larrieu wrote:
>
> > >> I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they
were
> > going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)<<
> >
> > some cruel and unusual thoughts come to mind.
> >
> > 1) Set some arbitrary standard such that people who fail day one by more
> > than so many points have a 90 day wait for retest, rather than 30 days.
Or
> > you have to at least made it into day 2 to be able to retest within 30
days.
> > Some such thing
> >
> > 2) Limit the number of times one may attempt the lab in any 12 month
period.
> >
> > 3) Increase the price charged for each lab attempt. E.g. 1K for first
> > attempt, 2K for 2nd, 5K for third
> >
> > I say this half jokingly, but half seriously. I talk to a lot of people
who
> > take the lab, both those who have passed and those who have not.
> > The old rule of economics holds true - people act according to their
> > perceived best interest. If someone else is footing the bill, and there
is
> > no disincentive for failure, then people will act accordingly. They will
> > book themselves and make attempts even when they know they have no hope
of
> > passing. They will schedule attempt after attempt because there is no
reason
> > not to, especially if someone else pays, and especially if there is no
> > penalty for failure.
> >
> > To be frank, I don't see any incentive for Cisco to do anything to
change
> > things on the demand side. They might add more racks, or more lab
locations.
> > But do the numbers some time. Cisco is booking something like 25 - 30
people
> > a week in San Jose alone. That's 25-30 K per week in revenue, or at
least
> > 1.3 million a year. So they pay a couple of lab proctors 150K each. The
rest
> > is pure profit. ( yes, I know from an accounting standpoint there are
> > several other cost factors ) So the incentive from Cisco's standpoint is
do
> > figure out ways to add revenue, rather than limit testing attempts.
> >
> > I look for Cisco to announce a bit more capacity, either in terms of
adding
> > another location or adding more racks at existing locations. Or both.
There
> > is a ton of money to be made in the certification game, and as the
entity
> > that controls the rules and the market, Cisco certainly enjoys the
lion's
> > share of that revenue.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> > CiscoCCStuff@aol.com
> > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 9:04 AM
> > To: cisco@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
> >
> > I am a little behind on my mail, so please forgive me if this has been
> > answered.
> >
> > I called to schedule my lab on Dec 21. The next date available was June
> > 11-12 at RTP. SIX MONTH BACKLOG...WOW!!!
> >
> > I did not ask about other test centers, but would imagine similar
bookings.
> > I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they were
> > going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)
> >
> > Jon Burns
> > CCNP, CCDP, Lab Candidate
> > Now, I just need to get a job! ;-)
> >
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